Respectless photographers?

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I seem to be months behind on this item of “news”. I actually spotted it a couple of weeks ago, but didn’t think it was that interesting. It seems as if people didn’t agree, as the topic is getting some serious discussion. Basically – a picture of a photographer in the middle of a marathon race is pissing off a lot of people.

On one hand, I can kind of see what is going on here. As Robert Capa said: “If the picture isn’t good enough, you’re not close enough”, and getting in the middle of a race is one way to get closer, I suppose…

On the other hand, you are guest on somebody else’s path, and getting in the way of runners who are at the limit of their tiredness, and only want to make it to the finish line, is at best rude.

Now, I don’t know the circumstances around this photo, but would like to talk about it a little bit anyway. My reaction is different, based on if she is a commissioned photographer or an amateur. If the latter, she’s in the wrong place, and someone should have told her to shove off. I’m not sure about the outraged calls of “getting ticketed… or worse” in the Flickr discussion, though – a bit harsh, I feel. If there were so many people who were outraged about this behaviour, why didn’t they just tell her to move out of the way?

One commenter mentions:

To all of you taht seem to think that she has the right to do somehting like this…… WAKE UP!!

I mean really now, I don’t recall having ever seen a race of ANY sort that is INTENDED for photographers. If there were, I’m sure that it would be around the block and not 24k (or whatever). If you had the right as a photographer to do this, the nice telephotos would be cheaper, the sporting events would be shorter, and a good photo would be a dime a dozen. It’s just not a good shot if you ruin the event that would in fact MAKE it a good shot.

I agree to a large degree, but if she was, in fact, a press photographer, things could have been slightly different: This was in New York City, and if this was a photographer for the New York Times, I believe she had a bigger ‘right’ to be in the way, than Joanna Q Random, amateur photographer. Why? Well, photographers should never be part of the story, so those two photos in the Flickr stream shows she’s in the wrong, but perhaps she was photographing the event all day long, and that was the only time she was in the way?

Or maybe not: This is what the original poster said:

The whole thing took around 3 – 4 minutes and around 30 runners were inconvenienced (or that is how I saw it).

Having said that, though, Magnum agency sent a photographer along as well, and their photos look as if their photographer was on the road as well…

Obviously, the Flickr comment stream turned into a random slagging-off match, as one of the commenters notes:

All of these message boards and websites for photographers…and it seems like there’s a direct correlation between the level of professionalism exhibited in the comments and the actual professional status of the “photographer” posting. The cattier the comments, the less likely the poster is really a professional photographer.

Ultimately, I believe it all boils down to why you are there. If you are shooting for an important newspaper or magazine, your job is to represent the publication honourably (because you are their face to the world. If she was wearing a huge National Geographic jacket, people would have been more careful with their comments, but that doesn’t mean what she is doing is any better, from the runner’s viewpoint), but also to get the best photos possible.

If a wartime photographer has to risk his life for the best photo, that’s what he has to do. If a sports photographer has to inconvenience a runner or two in the course of her job, well then so be it.

Personally, I hate pissing people off, but there have been situations where the only way I could get the best shot was to elbow another photographer, push a policeman out of the way (!), and block off a road with my car. Granted, that was a one-off, and I seriously angered about 30 people that day, but I was the one who came home with the best photo, and nobody else’s pictures got used. Some times, being rude is a business decision…

What do you guys think? Good behaviour or bad behaviour, on her part? Vote in the poll, and leave a comment here or in the Flickr stream.

The NYC marathon photographer... Is she in the wrong or not?

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This post, "Respectless photographers?", is part of these categories: All articles, was posted by Haje Jan Kamps and saw the light of day on the 10th of December 2006. I hope you liked it.

Insights, suggestions and comments

By Robert on December 10th, 2006 (permalink)

I don’t think it’s the end of the world, but she’s in the wrong. You might do a lot more than “inconvenience” people in a marathon. You break their stride, distract them from their rhythm, and potentially screw up a 26 mile effort for them.

If you’d like to use a National Geographic comparison, then do it how I’d imagine an NG photographer would: get permission first, or run in the marathon with a camera.

By robert e on December 10th, 2006 (permalink)

I hope you will elaborate on some of your points, as I’m finding some of the reasoning difficult to follow, and I think this is an area of concern for me as well as many other photographers, both amateur and aspiring to be pro.

But let’s spell out some context: We (or at least I) do not know why the photographer did what she did. Press credentials are issued for the NYCM and are required to be displayed by those within the barriers. It’s a closed course. So this person is either an uncredentialed amateur, an uncredentialed pro, or she’s put away the credentials. Does any of this matter?

Personally, I don’t think merely having a camera and wanting a shot is a license to kill, destroy, disrupt, terrorize, harass, or to do most things that would be out of bounds when one doesn’t have a camera. And having a camera and wanting a shot is all I know so far about this person.

Did you really compare shooting in a war zone to obstructing a footrace for a shot? I’m not sure how that even tracks, logically. Are you saying this was an act of bravery? Or that disrupting a competition or event is OK if the purpose is to get a good photo of it? And the reason it’s OK is because people risk their lives to document wars? No, I don’t think that’s what you meant. But I’m not sure either what you were trying to say with that.

Those runners around her don’t look like pros. Does that matter?

Does it really make a difference if she behaved well for a few hours before she behaved badly?

Was she really popping that flash in the runners’ faces?

If it’s OK to “inconvenience” athletes during a marathon, is it OK to do it on a track during the 1000m world championships? During a football game? I’m not trying to be flip–I think the open, public nature of a marathon is a key factor here. For a non-sports comparison: is this at all comparable to climbing on stage during a concert and standing in front of the lead singer to get closeup flash shots?

Surely, this is about more than just being willing to piss people off. Is there no right and wrong here? Why you are there is one thing. Why everyone else is there must count for something, too. This wasn’t a weekend jog, or a wedding, it’s the NYC marathon, which people take very seriously and train and plan and sacrifice for.

Last question: Would the quality of the resulting shots justify this transgression? What about more serious transgressions?

Well, I at least understand now how people could go on and on about this. Thanks for posting this item–I’d missed it myself.

By Chris on December 10th, 2006 (permalink)

I don’t see how those two statements equate. The photographer creating an inconvenience for themselves to get a shot to me is quite different then a photographer creating hardships or inconvenience for the subject (or for other people in the area) in order to get the shot. How would you feel about the following statement?

If a wartime photographer has to risk the lives of others for the best photo, that’s what he has to do. If a wartime photographer has to inconvenience a soldier or two in the course of her job, well then so be it.

By Brian Larter on December 11th, 2006 (permalink)

I don’t really see what the big deal is here.

Lets say for example shes an amerture photography due to the lack of a media pass. What exactly has she done wrong here? Albeit we don’t see all of the photos and well since I wasn’t there I can’t be a true judge of the situation. Did she knock anyone over? Did she make anyone lose the race? did someone else complain about the issue? I highly doubt it.

All she was doing was taking a risk to get the best shot possible (or so she felt, I’d love to see the photos). She could have done it other ways yes but she tried this way.

I can understand why some people may feel she was in the wrong but I think this has definatly been blown out of proportion.

By Michael on December 12th, 2006 (permalink)

There are several issues at play here. First and foremost is tact. Pro or not, a photographer should know that if they are going to put themselves in the midst of things that they either a. get in and out as quickly as possible or b. be part of the event. This photographer chose to get in but failed to get out. She made a mistake. This kind of mistake could happen to any photographer, whether they’re a pro or not. It is par for the course if you take chances with your photography.

Now to what really bothers me about this whole thing. We have a photographer in a spot that they should have reconsidered and a few photographers witnessing this photographers actions and thinking “Someone should say something to her!” No one actually decided to approach the photographer and explain that she could be distracting the runners. No one bothered to alert anyone involved in the event. Nada! Instead we have a community of photographers making comments that are far worse than what the photographer did. Nice professionalism. I was embarrassed that certain talented photographers showed so little tact in responding and critiquing the situation. Seriously, does the photographic community really need to resort to photoshop parodies, name calling and everyone offering their take on the course of bodily harm they would have taken if they were a runner? Are there really that many knee-jerk reactionaries walking around with cameras?

By Camera Man on December 12th, 2006 (permalink)

I think that it boils down to commen sense, there are a few other images in the flickr thread that simple boggle the mind! She is actualy standing bang in the middle of the runners and getting in the way!

Surely thats not on, even if its not the Olympics!

By Jon on December 12th, 2006 (permalink)

>All of these message boards and websites for photographers…and it seems like there’s a direct
>correlation between the level of professionalism exhibited in the comments and the actual professional
>status of the “photographer” posting. The cattier the comments, the less likely the poster is really a >professional photographer.

I totally agree with this comment. DPreview is one of the worst offenders.